One Drink Book Club | The Thursday Murder Club by Richard Osman

[00:00:09] Hello and welcome to another edition of the One Drink Book Club. Today we're talking about The Thursday Murder Club by Richard Osman. The book follows a group of retirees, or pensioners, as they like to say in Britain, who solve a series of murders that have occurred close to their retirement community. My guest tonight is a friend and colleague, Charlize Bozzello. Hey, Char, welcome to the podcast. Hey, Jamie, I'm excited to be here.

[00:00:34] Yeah, well, you've seen this before. I'm super excited to talk about this book because it's been a favorite of mine ever since I read it, and there are multiple books in this, so if you like this book, you don't have to stop at just one. It was fun to pick out a drink for this book. What drink did you pick out and make for tonight?

[00:00:53] My bartender made me an elderflower gimlet. That was my choice, and my thought process was, well, they do drink a lot of wine in the book, which does not really lend itself to a lot of cocktails, obviously, but I thought gin is just like ultimately very British. Exactly. So when-

[00:01:13] I thought the gimlet is very punchy, which I think is a good word to describe our little ragtag group, but I thought the elderflower also softened it a little bit. It's a little floral, I think like Elizabeth and Joyce, and I'm sure we're going to talk about them. So I thought it was punchy, but also kind of had that soft side to it, which I think is a good way to describe the group. So that was my thought process.

[00:01:37] That is excellent. And what's kind of funny is that my drink also includes St. Germain, which is elderflower liqueur, which is kind of funny. And mine, what I made was a, it's called a Killer Queen. And I thought it, it also kind of, the name was good. Queen, it takes place in Britain, a killer for the murders, obviously.

[00:02:03] And what this is, is two ounces of gin, and I used Hendrix. It's calls for Lelay Blanc, which I did not have, and I could not find tonight. So a substitute was St. Germain, which is elderflower liqueur. And then it has a little bit of Benedictine. So it is, it's a play on a martini, but I thought it was good.

[00:02:26] There also does seem to be something about elderflower that seems inherently British. Like, I'm not sure that that's true, but it seems to have that kind of vibe to me.

[00:02:36] Yeah. And, you know, one of the obvious choices from the book is a gin and tonic because Joyce, one of the characters, mentioned several times the joy of these canned gin and tonics on the train, which is so cute. But as a rule, I'm trying not to double up on drinks, and I used a gin and tonic in a previous podcast. So I felt like I couldn't use that one for this.

[00:03:01] Yeah. And I feel like there were a lot of ways to get creative about this cocktail, just given the group. So I think that's a good one. Totally. So did you like the book? I loved the book, and I cannot stop reading everything that this author writes. So I could not recommend it more.

[00:03:21] Well, it's really a fun book because not only is it a thriller, which are those are always good, but the characters are so great and the dialogue is so good. And it's funny. I mean, it's funny and charming and sweet.

[00:03:34] The four main characters, which are Joyce, Elizabeth, Ron, and Ibrahim live in this Cooper's Chase, which is a kind of luxury retirement village. And they're all in their 70s. They're at this kind of stage in their lives where they kind of say, well, who's going to care what we do? We can do whatever we want. We're just a bunch of old people. Do you think that these characters would have been as charming if they weren't kind of elderly and retired?

[00:04:04] I really don't, because I think one of the things that's so charming about them is there is this, they're very unsuspecting. Like the whole, and I think one of the major points of the book is that there's so much more than meets the eye to all of these characters.

[00:04:22] And I think because they're older, the assumption is that they're a little bit written off, right? Like a lot of elderly people, it's kind of how we think about it. Oh, they're in a retirement home. They're kind of done with their adventures or, you know, what are they possibly getting up to? How harmful could they be?

[00:04:40] And I think that they prove that they've got a lot of stuff left to do. And I think that that kind of twist in and of itself and that layering to their characters just wouldn't work if they were younger. And I think they also bring so much of their past to the present and all of their experiences. And I don't think they'd have that richness if they were younger people. That would be my take.

[00:05:04] I agree. Although I, you know, it's when I was a kid, there was a movie called the bloodhound gang and I don't even know the premise of it, but it was a lot of younger. It was like kids who were in middle school and they kind of solved a crime or a, you know, a murder. And it had a little bit of the same elements that people wrote them off. They were kids. What would they know? And, but they were smart and they were crafty, just like our crowd in the Thursday murder club.

[00:05:31] And they're so cute together and so unassuming, you know, they, even the, the, the police play a role in this and they kind of just shake their heads because these guys, the old crowd, the Thursday murder club kind of out shines them at every turn. Like they, they find things out before them, but they can't get mad at them because they're so sweet and they're so cute.

[00:05:52] Yeah. I think you're right. That it kids is probably the only other demographic that this works with because it's the same idea of what could you possibly do? Like you're just children. We're not thinking that deeply about what you're getting up to, but I guess in this sense, just given the, the seriousness of maybe all the things that's going on and, and the fact that Elizabeth, so Elizabeth was formerly a spy from what we can tell.

[00:06:19] So, yes. You know, she brings kind of like that insane experience and she knows everyone and she has all these connections. So I think, I think you're right that kids are probably the only other thing this would work with, but I think these guys are a little bit more complex just to meet the plot that they're kind of finding themselves in.

[00:06:36] Absolutely. And the crowd, there's like these relationships even within this group of four. And just to, for somebody who hasn't read the book, the Thursday murder club comes out of the idea that at Cooper's chase, their retirement home, there's all sorts of clubs. There's the jigsaw plug club. There's the francophile club. There's all these little clubs and they all meet in kind of the group room.

[00:07:01] And their club is the Thursday murder club. And they meet on Thursdays in the room. And up until this point, they had been looking at cold cases from one of their members who is now kind of ill and out of the picture, but they look at these old cases and try to solve them.

[00:07:19] And what happens during the course of the Thursday murder club book is there is, there are a couple of murders that happen right on site or in the neighborhood. And so now they're dealing with a live case and they're going to solve it. But the, these characters, Joyce and Elizabeth have kind of this special bond. That's kind of interesting as well as the two men, which is Ron and Ibrahim. What did you think about those two, the subsets of the group of four?

[00:07:47] Oh, I love Ron and Ibrahim's relationship. I just think it's so cute. And they're so different. Ron is kind of this like burly, you know, he's older now, but, you know, retired labor leader, you know, he gets angry over everything, obviously incredibly liberal, even for Britain. And Ibrahim is just this very, he's a psychologist or psychiatrist rather. And he's just so in his head about everything and a very kind of quiet, well mannered man.

[00:08:17] Very like regimented. And I feel like they couldn't be more different. And they just develop this really nice like brotherhood between them, which is really nice to see. And I think similarly with Elizabeth and Joyce, they're very different as well. And Elizabeth, as we said, as a spy, hard to kind of have a lot in common with Elizabeth and Joyce's. And I think of all of them, Joyce is the one who is supposed to be the most unassuming. She kind of just fades into the background. And that's, I think why she's so effective in their murder solving.

[00:08:45] And so I just, I think it's also, and then this is why I think this book is great for everyone, no matter what your age is. Because I think if you're older, you kind of look at it and see, wow, like there's still so many things to do. And also I think new relationships to be had. And I think when you're younger, you kind of look at it and say, like, I hope that's what happens to me. Like, I hope that I keep meeting new people and making new friendships.

[00:09:11] And as you get older, that's like one of the things that becomes really difficult. Like how often do you make a really good new friend? And so I think for them to both have that and become more than the club, right? Like they really do form these tight bonds. And it's just really sweet. And I think part of what makes the book just so, just like warm your heart so much.

[00:09:32] Absolutely. There's a scene at one point and they've split up. The women are off doing something and Ron and Ibrahim are in Ibrahim's apartment. And they are going through some of the details of the murder and trying to figure out some things. And at one point, Ron admits that he couldn't be happier. He's sitting here with his mate Ibrahim.

[00:09:59] They're having some nice scotch. They have something to talk about. They have something where they feel important about. And really, this is the life. And it's just so cute. And it's hard not to love all of them. And like you said, they're all very different people. Very different personalities. And beyond them, there's a whole other cast of characters in this book. There's Bogdan, the handyman on site, and the people who were murdered.

[00:10:27] Tony Curran and the developer who got murdered. And the police officers as well. Who were your favorites in that kind of supporting cast? I mean, Bogdan is like, gotta be up there. He's the best. The very handsome handyman. I feel like you forgot to mend it. That's true. And I feel like Bogdan is so great because he's all at once, he's like this teddy bear,

[00:10:55] but also someone who, you know, will kind of go to any extreme for the people that he cares about. And so he's like a little bit scary or intimidating, but also like one of the sweetest characters and so loyal. And my other, one of the other characters I love is Stephen, Elizabeth's husband, and him and Bogdan's relationship and how Bogdan. So Stephen is going through the early phases of dementia. And it's very difficult.

[00:11:25] And Bogdan comes and plays chess with him and is clearly very loyal to him and spends time with him and takes care of him. So I like their relationship as well. And then, I mean, Donna is also the best, right? Like, and it's nice, I think. I mean, Chris is, of course, younger as well, but he's a police officer too. He's, I think, late 40s.

[00:11:48] Yeah, Donna and Chris are the police officers and Elizabeth and the gang have kind of co-opted them as part of their group. And they kind of press them for information and it's good nature. They manipulate them, but in a friendly way. Yes. And then they're, they're, they become great friends. But I think that Donna is a nice injection of a younger voice every now and then, you know? Mm-hmm.

[00:12:13] And I think too, and I think a big part of the book is the gang sort of, obviously they're solving murders and responding to that. But I think they're also responding to a lot of this modern stuff that's kind of coming at them, right? You know, technology and, you know, what, with Joyce and her daughter, there's some tension there too, I think, between old and young.

[00:12:34] And so I think Donna is a nice bridge for them because she does become friendly with them and she is always there to kind of guide them through things and help them through things. And it's obviously just funny and I think a good, just a good counterpoint for some of their points of view. Absolutely. Going back to Bogdan, one of the things that's very fun about his character is that he's Polish. And so he speaks English with a kind of a little bit broken English. And so, again, it goes to this idea of people being underestimated.

[00:13:04] So when you hear about Bogdan, he's kind of this construction guy, handyman guy who's a Polish immigrant. He, you know, you might, if you go with your prejudices, might think, oh, he's kind of a simple guy. He's not like a real thinker or slow or something. But he's incredibly sharp, very crafty, as you said, very loyal and is not somebody to underestimate. But people do. And he's a great addition.

[00:13:31] And as you said, you've been reading the subsequent books. He starts to play a bigger and bigger role. And if Richard Osman was here, I would ask him if the reason he included more of Bogdan was a response from fans. So I was listening to an interview with him. And apparently, when he first put Bogdan in the story, he was just supposed to be the side character to fill a need. He was like, I need someone else to be the builder.

[00:14:00] So I'm just going to have this character. And then he just really liked him and just kind of weaved him in more. And then I think as the book ended, it became clear that Bogdan is one of the, you know, heroes. Sidekick, yes. And he really had to keep him. But I can't even imagine, like, imagine if Bogdan was just remained the builder and didn't go on. I know. And also funny that he writes these books with no plan at all. Because as we know, Bogdan has a very important role at the end of the book.

[00:14:29] And he did not know that when he made him the builder. That is so neat. And I don't know if you looked at any more of Richard Osmond's kind of resume. But A, this is his first book or first novel, which is incredible. Wild. And then the other thing is that his, you know, kind of day job up to this was a game show producer and a game show host in Britain. I knew he was in TV, but I didn't realize it was game shows specifically.

[00:14:58] Yeah, a lot of them were. Well, I thought, I did think, I knew he was in TV and I actually thought that made a lot of sense given the way the book is written. Because it is kind of written like episodes, right? Like, one character does this and then we move on, plop you down in another scene, cut next scene. Like, I did think that was very TV-esque. Yeah.

[00:15:19] And did you have any, I mean, I couldn't help, but when I, I listened to the book and the narrator, Leslie Manville, was fantastic. And she did, she did all of these voices. She really breathed a lot of life into, to the dialogue. And it turns out, I actually looked her up. She's done a number of books that I've read and enjoy. She did Moonflower Murders.

[00:15:50] And she also did Remarkably Bright Creatures. So, some really, really good ones. But the characters, when I heard Joyce, and every time you talked about Joyce, I could not help thinking of Betty White. She had this very, you know, kind of, she's a little bit saucy. She always is kind of chasing the guys a little bit. And she, you know, she always comments on people whether they're handsome or not. And, you know, that kind of thing. Kind of like Betty White in the way that she would always play to that.

[00:16:19] But did you see, if you had to cast some of these characters in the movie version, did you have any ideas for any of the characters? So, I've sort of been ruined by this question or for this question because they're making this into a series or a movie. And I've seen all the casting. Oh, you have? I didn't look that up. Well, they don't have everyone yet, but I have looked into some of them. And so, now I feel like, so for instance, Elizabeth is going to be Helen Mirren.

[00:16:50] Perfect. And now I can't see anybody else for Elizabeth because I think that's, like, absolutely perfect. Joyce was someone who didn't ring a bell for me. And I forget their name, but, like, the person didn't look familiar. But did you ever watch Downton Abbey? I did not. So, there's a character on there that is an older woman who I think has a kind of, like, unassuming – and for anyone listening who did watch Downton Abbey, it would be Mrs. Crawley.

[00:17:20] Yes. But she – when she talks, she does – she has a little bit of, like, a funny attitude or will say witty things or whatever it might be. So, I thought someone like that could be Joyce. And then they have Ben Kingsley, Sir Ben Kingsley being Ibrahim. Ibrahim. It has to be. Yeah. Which, again, I was sitting here before thinking, who's, like, a really handsome, like, Egyptian guy? Like, who would that be?

[00:17:49] And then this is really the only answer. And then they have Pierce Brosnan as Ron, which is very nice to Ron, I think. Well, that's extremely nice to Ron. I would dream about having Pierce Brosnan play me in a movie. Yes. I don't know that that is the Ron in my head, but – No, that one is not. Yeah. I actually – who's the guy on Ted Lasso who played the manager who Rebecca fired right out of the gate?

[00:18:16] And then he was, like, a commentator for football? I know who you're talking about. Like, big white hair and everything? Mm-hmm. That's kind of who I see as a Ron. Yeah, I see that much more. I didn't think Ron was quite as handsome as Pierce Brosnan. No. And also, I saw Ron as a much burlier dude, and I don't think Pierce Brosnan really, like, fits that role. Yeah.

[00:18:38] But this is not a casting, but another thought I had, although this person is not British, but what if Harrison Ford played Steven? I feel like he could be – I like that. Very intellectual, but also a fun time. Charming, yeah. Although I have a hard time seeing Harrison Ford do a British accent. That is where this dream doesn't really make it to reality. But I think you're right, though.

[00:19:06] In terms of mannerisms and how he could approach it, definitely. Well, I'm excited to see – well, excited to see it, but then not excited to see it. Because I have rarely been thrilled when I see the TV or movie versions of the books I really enjoy. Yeah, it's always – I feel like you just have to think of it as a separate thing.

[00:19:30] Like, okay, and this is unrelated, but I know the story, and I'm going to go try to enjoy it. Yeah, yeah. One of the things that the author does, which I think is very interesting. So, as he's telling the story, every once in a while, he pops in and uses Joyce in first person who is writing in her diary.

[00:19:53] And that is a way we find out different things, and you get these insights into Joyce and her relationships. But – so you have kind of a – as a reader, you have a special relationship with Joyce through her diary, which I think is a really genius way to fill the reader in on certain pieces of knowledge that you might need to get, but without having to do it with dialogue.

[00:20:19] I thought that was a neat way of kind of filling in gaps. What did you – how did you like that? Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. I think it is a genius way to get all this, like, observational stuff that we need to know that just sounds maybe not right in dialogue. Like, for instance, Joyce always lets us know if someone's attractive or not. Right. That's, like, useful to the reader. You want to know that information.

[00:20:45] But it would be weird if every time we're in – we're following all these different people, if he's like, and then we walked by this person and he was quite attractive. It would just not make a lot of sense for all the other characters, especially, like, in Ibrahim, who – his character just does not notice those things at all, you know? Right, right. He's thinking very internally. So I think it's genius, and I think Joyce is – the way that she is is she's perfectly set up to tell us,

[00:21:12] you know, what cake she's cooking and then also where her and Elizabeth were strolling earlier and did she buy anything? And I do like that he – Joyce gives us all these details, but I feel like they're rarely useless. Like, a lot of it always comes back, even if it seems in the moment, kind of cursory. Yep. So I think it's a great way to inform the reader, and it's fun, and it doesn't take you out of the book. It, like, keeps you very deep in it.

[00:21:39] And I feel like sometimes when you're reading novels and they start to describe something, you get taken out of it because you're just like, okay, well, we've been – this doesn't really make sense with what's going on, but I understand I need to know this information. And actually, he said in this interview that I listened to that whenever he was stuck on the book, he would just write a Joyce chapter, and that was how he just, like, talked through it. Well, I thought it worked well. And Joyce, of all the characters, changes the most, I think. She gains a lot of confidence.

[00:22:08] She's trying a lot of new things and really comes out of her shell a little bit. And all the characters do. They change. And I think in our lives, you have these discussions. You are kind of a new mom. And I think when you have a baby, for instance, it's like you find lots of new friends because you're looking for other friends, new people who also have babies, and you're kind of – you're put into all these situations where you're meeting new people.

[00:22:34] But in life, there aren't very many times when you're kind of open for business and new friends. Like, you know, when you go off to college, you know, you meet a lot of new people. When you kind of move or get your first job, you meet new people. When you have kids, you meet new people. But there's a long period in your life where you don't necessarily kind of collect a lot of new friends and get the influence from them.

[00:22:57] And apparently, when you move into a retirement home in Britain that's on – in Kent, that's another time where you're going to meet a lot of new people. And you drink every day at lunch. And you drink every day at lunch. So I thought – I love it when characters grow over the course of a book. And I thought Joyce did that well. And all of them did. Ron softened. Ibrahim came out of his shell a little bit. Elizabeth also kind of softened a bit, I think. You know, she's pretty strident.

[00:23:27] Yeah. I think Elizabeth – well, I think they all – they change, but they remain very true to themselves. Like, Joyce grows in confidence. But she – it's because she's more accepting of who she is because she thinks, I am someone who people don't really assume much about. I do sort of blend in. But I know that this makes me a very good asset when we solve murders or we'll do whatever it is if it's not solving murders. And I feel like she grows in confidence in what's already there in her.

[00:23:57] And that's really nice to see. And I think all of them do, right? It's not that they have to change. They just – they love themselves, you know? Like, they're still learning to accept themselves. And it's nice. That's a great point. That they don't necessarily change, but they just kind of are more accepting of who they are. That's kind of a neat thing. One of the things – clearly, one of the enjoyable things as a reader is how funny it is. And there are some really laugh-out-loud moments.

[00:24:24] Were there any, you know, times – anything that pops in your head as, like, a really funny scene? I mean, the banter just constantly is so funny to me. And I love – because they're so British, like, when you're reading Joyce's diary, just the way they talk is just – and I do think that it would not be as funny if they were American. Because I don't think that we have that ability to be very lighthearted and sarcastic about very heavy things.

[00:24:54] I feel like that is a very British thing. I'm trying to think of something specific. And I might be – I really like when Joyce and her daughter get in that fight. I like all their interactions, but they get in a fight about which way the blinds are facing. And her daughter says they should be up, and Joyce says they should be down. And Joyce is telling us she's kind of, like, afraid to say what she thinks to her daughter because every time she does, she gets criticized. And they have all these kind of fights.

[00:25:24] But they love each other. They're not deeply – you know, there's no deep-seated issues or anything. And I just thought this is – it's remarkable to me that he's a man that wrote this because I'm like, this is every daughter talking to her mom. Like, this is – we have all experienced this, as I'm sure you know with your wife and daughter. And I just thought that was so funny to be, like, looking in on those scenes. Yeah. He does a great job with that.

[00:25:51] And there just is – like you said, the dialogue and the banter is extremely funny. And it wouldn't be nearly as funny if it was American, I think, for sure. Yeah, we just – we wouldn't be as charming, you know. It just – it would take a different turn. There's something about, you know, they can be discussing a dead body and just the way they talk and the way the jokes that they make. Couldn't do it in America. Did you listen to it or did you read it in a physical book? I listened to it.

[00:26:20] And I did love the narrator. I thought she was fantastic. And they swap her out in the third book. And I was very sad about that. Yeah, you know, sometimes you just don't know what the situation is, why they would do that. Why they would do it to me personally. Yeah, maybe she had something else. Yeah, because clearly when I looked at her kind of resume, she is in demand for sure. Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:47] I mean, she – all the voices and just the cadence with which she read, it was amazing. Yeah. But, you know, I would be interested to actually read them because I do feel like you take different things away when you listen rather than read. But I don't know, though, because there's so many characters to follow. I thought the listening actually really helped because she really separated everyone out in a way in which I could imagine if I was reading it kind of getting confused with all the different people.

[00:27:18] Well, you know, one of the things – so I have read it – I first read it probably a couple years ago, like when it first came out. And so when you said you were reading it and you agreed to do the podcast with it, I went back and re-listened to it.

[00:27:34] And one of the things I do know in these books that have a lot of characters, like this one, once you already know all the characters, it's kind of fun to go back and at least listen to the first couple chapters again because it becomes – it's much clearer. Because you know the voices and you know the characters, whereas the first time you may – it may have been a little foggy. Well, and you're just kind of getting introed to everyone.

[00:28:00] Well, even I – at the end of the book, you realize that a lot of information you were given at the beginning of the book is very important. But it seems like intro info. It seems like this is just the way to get things started and the point is not the information. The point is the characters that are discussing it and I'm learning about them. And it's a very – like a sleight of hand for him, you know? And then later on, you realize that actually that was all very important info. Totally.

[00:28:29] Have you ever read the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society? No. Okay. So if you liked this and you liked cute British older people – Which who doesn't? Who doesn't? I highly recommend it. It's all written through letters. And you hear the story from like this person's perspective because they just wrote a letter to this person and this person is back. And it's really – it's really heartwarming.

[00:28:58] And it takes place in Guernsey. And it tells the story of what happened in Guernsey during World War II because Guernsey was the only British island that was taken over by the Germans. And so this is right after the war and it kind of does a lot of flashbacks to how they handled the occupation. And it's really – and it's a love story. It's very heartwarming. Well, that sounds great.

[00:29:24] I'll add it right to my list right after I'm done with all the Richard Osman books. Yes. Which is kind of a last note. You said you were on the fourth book. You're almost done with the Thursday Murder Club. I am, unfortunately. Yeah. Which is a sad day, but they are so good.

[00:29:45] And he's got a new book out right now that just came out this past year but pretty recently called We Solve Murders. And I think – I did read it and it's great. And it's not old people, although there is one older character which is super fun. Is it not like in this world at all? It's like a whole new – It's a whole new world. None of the characters are the same.

[00:30:11] It is a murder mystery, but it's all new people and you're going to like all of them. And it's very much set up to have more adventures. So I think there will be additional books in this series as well so that you will get to know these characters even better. I do love getting sucked into a series, I have to admit. Well, Char, thank you for taking the time to talk about this. Of course. Thank you. I mean, I got this book for so many people for Christmas.

[00:30:40] So clearly I'm obsessed and can't stop talking about it. Well, and I've been looking for somebody to talk to about it for a while. So it really is one of my favorites. And I have also given it as gifts to many people. So, again, I appreciate you taking the time and chatting about it. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and if you're listening, please subscribe, whether it's Apple, Spotify, etc.

[00:31:06] Or go to the website, onedrinkbookclub.com, where you can see both the videos and download the audio versions of these podcasts. Thank you very much and have a good evening.