One Drink Book Club | Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir

[00:00:10] Hello and welcome to another edition of the One Drink Book Club. Today we'll be talking about Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir. Project Hail Mary is a science fiction novel that follows the journey of Ryland Grace, a lone scientist who wakes up in a spaceship with no memory of how he got there. His memory gradually returns and he realizes that he's on a suicide mission to save life on Earth. My guest today is my friend Mark Wallace, who is my guide for all things science fiction. Welcome, Mark.

[00:00:35] Mark. Thanks, Jamie. I'm glad we finally got to do this. It's been a long time in the making here. I guess the first thing on the agenda is what drink did you bring inspired by Andy Weir's book here? Yeah, this is a tough one because I was looking for something creative, but there wasn't a lot to go on, although you probably are going to one up me on this one.

[00:00:57] But there was a scene halfway through the book where they're in training where you've got, you know, the three astronauts that are supposed to go on the Hail Mary. There's Chinese Commander Yao, who is drinking a German beer. So I have a German beer. And then you have Ilyukna, who is the Russian engineer who is drinking vodka. So I have some straight vodka here.

[00:01:24] And then lastly, there's Dubois, who is the scientist that's supposed to be an astronaut who's drinking a Cabernet. So I have one of each one of those. So I have three drinks. Now, we all know Dubois ends up not making the trip. And that's why our hero gets in there. But he was drinking his cab. So that's what I have today. Nice. Well, I think that's very creative. I really struggled with this. I made a Petrova Paloma. That's what I called it here.

[00:01:53] You can't really tell. You can tell a little bit. I basically sliced. I added an orange at the bottom. And it has a slice so that it looks like the top of the sun. And I stuck a cherry stem into the sun to form a Petrova line. So in the book, Petrova line is kind of like a infrared red line that these microbes are making based on that are causing all the problems with our world. That's right. Yeah.

[00:02:22] So, you know, I don't want to. One of the things I really loved about this book, Mark, and thank you for the suggestion, was I felt like it was like three books in one. I mean, there's a little bit of a mystery, kind of like a mystery thriller thing, because this guy wakes up with two dead astronauts in the same room with him. He has no idea where he is. He doesn't even know he's in space. And he has to kind of figure out what's going on. His memory kind of comes back. So it's a little bit of a mystery. Then there's lots of science fiction. You know, they're traveling in space.

[00:02:51] There's these big problems. There's a lot of, like, science problem solving. And then it's also a bit of a bromance. The relationship between him and Rocky, his friend, is kind of neat, a neat aspect. Which one of those was kind of your favorite? Well, yeah, I love The Martian. And Andy Weir's science and dry humor comes out almost immediately in the book, which is great. It does start off differently than his other books that I've read anyway, Martian and Artemis,

[00:03:21] in that it's kind of a detective story in the very beginning. You know, what's going on? And so that's different. And you enjoy kind of the revealing bit by bit as he has flashbacks to his, you know, why he's here, the creation of the problem, and how he gets selected ultimately to be on this mission. And then who those other two comrades are that didn't make it. We figure that out eventually.

[00:03:47] Weir also uses the flashbacks to kind of describe the problem of why Project Hail Mary is on this mission in the first place. So I thought that was great. I'm a sci-fi geek, and I'm also, I love just the science. And I think Andy Weir does a good job of diving into kind of technical problems and describing the science and math behind it in a pretty accurate way without making it boring. Another question for you is, you're far more of a STEM guy than I am.

[00:04:16] I wondered if you really knew science, were you saying, oh, he's simplifying that or that wouldn't work or things like that? And it sounds like you thought he did a good job. Yeah, I think especially in the beginning, I mean, towards the end where they're, you know, diving into the planet together, you know, it gets, it's more of a Hollywood dramatic scene. You know, it gets a little crazy. But yeah, just explaining basic science as, you know, to kind of the layperson, I think he does a really good job at that. He did that.

[00:04:45] He's done that in his other two books, I think, really well. And I think that gives it an element of, I don't know, it really, it really gives it some punch. You know, even the geeks like me can enjoy it, but also the people that don't really understand can enjoy it. And I think, yeah, I think he does a fantastic job of that. I read The Martian before I read this one, and I haven't read Artemis, but I felt like if you enjoyed The Martian

[00:05:07] and all the problem solving that happened where the main character there is stuck on Mars and has to figure out how to make his supplies last and handle the communication problems, and he kind of does it in a very clever way. If you like that, you would also like this. Ryland Grace, the main character there, is the same kind of thing, smart and clever, and really enjoys trying to solve these problems. Of course, we don't know his name is Ryland Grace for a while.

[00:05:34] I mean, it takes a while before you actually figure out what his name is, which is good in what he does. It turns out he's a junior high school teacher, very smart one. But that, you know, that was interesting as well, the kind of the evolution of how he gets sucked into the whole problem that Earth is dealing with. And I thought he was a great character. Like, he was, as you said, funny. Like, a lot of the, almost all the humor is coming from the main character. And he's a little irreverent.

[00:06:01] He's a high school or a middle school science teacher that everybody would have wanted to have. Like, he would have been the most popular teacher in school, for sure. I also thought, you know, and again, this is a little bit of a spoiler alert, but the relationship between Ryland and Rocky. Rocky is an alien who ends up in the same solar system as Ryland, trying to solve the same problem.

[00:06:25] His, Rocky's people have realized that their son is being sucked away by these, this, this problem. And so he was there and all of his crewmates died as well. And so the two of them are kind of the lone people left in order to solve this problem for both of their worlds. And there's a, it's a super cute relationship where they become really very good friends. I, I, I loved Rocky.

[00:06:51] Yeah, I think, and you know, this is going to be a movie in a year too, with Ryan Gosling too. You know, it'd be interesting how they, they pull that off on the screen. You know, as science fiction writers, I think struggle with aliens in general. So it's really tough, especially if you have a benevolent alien, you know, you know, it's not like, you know, somebody trying to wipe out the human race or anything.

[00:07:11] And so I think that Andy Weir does a really good job of explaining Rocky's existence through science and, you know, describing why he is like he is. And, you know, Rocky, of course, you know, he's like a spider, his five legs, claws, lives in, you know, mercury for blood, kind of, you know, lives in super high pressure. It's, it's really, and it doesn't, it has sonar, doesn't have any eyes, right? It doesn't have any way to see light.

[00:07:38] So that was, that's a whole adventure, how they try to figure that out and communicate with each other. And so you're right. I mean, it is another story within the story. I mean, they have to obviously solve this problem. And the problem, I think we haven't really talked about that. I mean, the problem is, you know, these microbes attack our son and it turns out they're just, you know, doing what every microbe does and trying to survive. So they're eating the heat of the sun and then going to Venus and eating carbon dioxide and multiplying and going back and forth.

[00:08:06] And ultimately absorbing the heat from the sun and dimming it, which is creating this ice age on Earth. You know, after they can understand what's going on, identify Tau Ceti, which is this other star that seems to have the problem, but doesn't seem to be getting any worse. And so Project Hail Mary is to go to this other solar system and determine why.

[00:08:28] And it turns out that Rocky's ARID, which is his planet, develops a spaceship to send their Project Hail Mary at the same time. So that's how they meet up. Yeah, it's a really creative setup. And I liked, I mean, the fun part, I think, as the author is to have Rocky who can introduce like alien technology. You know, so there are things that you wouldn't be able to do as part of, you know, with Earthling technology that he kind of can fill in the gaps.

[00:08:56] And so, and like you said, Rocky can't see anything. He can't see light. He's all sonar. So they both bring things to the table too, because it turned out Rocky was also not one of the scientists on his flight. He was more of an engineer and he knows how to build things, but he doesn't necessarily know all the science thing. And Ryland is not really an engineer, but he is a scientist. So they, they, they compliment each other well on their, on their skills.

[00:09:24] And it's, it's a fun, explain the, the, the challenges they had with communicating and how Rocky communicates. Well, so it's almost like a musical, uh, use a sound to communicate and to see. It was using sonar to move around. The entire ship is kind of developed in that way, develops using this xenonite that turns out is a super strong material that ends up being, you know, something that Earth didn't have.

[00:09:51] And Ryland takes, you know, to send back to Earth as kind of the gift ultimately, um, where they can build space elevators and everything. And then in return, it turns out that Rocky, you know, his, his entire crew dies because Arid never knew what radiation was because they never were out in deep space. And they all died from radiation while Rocky was down in the engine room essentially of the, of his ship, uh, where it was protected by xenonite. So it's very interesting.

[00:10:17] And again, creative, there's some irony in the whole story and the project Hail Mary, uh, you know, has a Russian, a Chinese and an American astronaut on it. And, you know, when Andy Weir wrote this, you know, years ago now, like a few years ago, whatever, much different climate, I think between the countries. So it's kind of, there's an irony there.

[00:10:37] And then of course the irony of global cooling, you know, one of the whole parts of the story is the human race basically releasing tons of methane to, to heat up the planet and like accelerate global warming. So there's a lot of ironic things and I'm not sure what Weir's intention was there, but ironic nonetheless.

[00:10:57] There really aren't a whole lot of characters in this book, but one of the fun character is Eva Stratt, who is basically the countries of the world. Once they realize this problem, they realize the gravity of the problem. It's somewhat impressive how they decide to cut through essentially all the bureaucracy and they appoint this woman who was a Dutch woman who is clearly very smart, no nonsense, a very hard driver to be the project manager for project Hail Mary.

[00:11:27] And she has essentially all of the authority she would ever need from anyone. So there's a scene where they show up in court because one of the things they gave the astronauts on the, on the Hail Mary was essentially every publication ever created. And so, cause they said, well, we don't know what kind of situations you're going to run into. So we want to make sure they have access to any knowledge that the human race has come up with.

[00:11:53] And a group of people who are publishers and copyright owners tried to sue project Hail Mary. And she shows up in court with no lawyers, nothing. And, uh, she just basically says, well, I have this letter from essentially the UN and the president that says I can do whatever I want and that it bypasses any existing laws. And they, they even tried to, you know, say, you still need to stay here for the rest of this hearing.

[00:12:18] And she said, no, I don't. And five, uh, soldiers from the U S army came in and escort her out. Uh, cause the bailiff was just about to hold her back. And she says, you and what army? Cause I have the U S army behind me. And I think they're a pretty good army. She was a fun character and clearly the, the, the whole thing would have, wouldn't have gotten off the ground without her behind it. That whole IP, you know, intellectual property court scene is kind of interesting in the book. It's just, it's this little segment, but it does do a good job.

[00:12:47] It illustrates just her authority. And you're kind of like, yes, keep moving. And we all wish we had that authority to some of these IP people, but yeah. Yeah. You purposely put in the term patent trolls in that scene, which I thought, I thought of you. Cause I know that. Yeah, exactly. That's been something you've had to deal with. I need to hire Eva Strat, I think. So there's the whole, uh, Eva, you know, and, and the Strat, Ryle and Grace kind of relationship is kind of interesting too.

[00:13:15] They have a, it's almost like there's a romantic tension between the two that never really clicks in throughout the whole story, which is interesting. You almost expect this flashback where, you know, they finally get together, but they never do. And ultimately we find out that Grace is kind of chicken to go in the first place. And when, when Dubois, who I'm drinking the cab for right now, ends up blowing himself up, experimenting with, uh, you know, the fuel.

[00:13:41] And, um, weir goes through how the, uh, explosion was caused by a measurement error. It was kind of a nod to the, these, uh, space measurement errors that every now and then creep up and, and, uh, fail a mission. But he ends up getting blown up and, and then, uh, they have to tap in Grace because in order to make the trip, you have to be coma resistant. Turns out Grace has the genetics to do that, but he refuses to go and they end up basically, uh, drugging him and throwing him on the ship.

[00:14:07] And he doesn't realize that, uh, what happened until he's, he finally wakes up outside of, uh, Tau Ceti. It's kind of, kind of interesting. But then he has some redemption there where he kind of claims, you know, I would have, of course I'll do my best and I will, uh, you know, participate and do my duty and everything. So that's kind of interesting. And at the end of the day, he ends up solving the problem and saving earth. So Stratt did the right thing apparently.

[00:14:30] Well, you know, and that was actually the only part of the book I didn't necessarily agree with, because as you learn about Ryland Grace's personality with all of these flashbacks. And he's flashing back to, you know, scenes in the classroom with his students and him learning about the, the microbe that is causing all these problems is called astrophage.

[00:14:50] And he came up with a name and in, in the way that he did all of that, it didn't seem like that person that you got to know and that you got to know throughout his narration through the story would be the same person who would be too chicken to get on that flight. I mean, true, because he, he also knew that they were all going to die because this ice age was coming and that they wouldn't be able to survive. So you're either going to die on this mission or you're going to die in a few years when the earth is no longer sustainable.

[00:15:20] And so that part where he was, where they had to kind of like hog tie him and put him on the flight just didn't ring true to me in how I felt like I knew the character. Yeah. Especially when he saw how he acted with Rocky, there were a few situations again, not trying to throw in spoilers where, you know, they both Rocky and Ryland had to sacrifice for one another in a very selfless way. I think he did it with, with flying colors, which again, kind of doesn't jive with the idea that he would have been, he would have refused to go on the original mission.

[00:15:50] If he was given more time to think about it and it kind of all happened very quickly. I don't want to go. Okay. Knock him over the head. He's going. You're going.

[00:16:26] Yeah. And then it doesn't, you know, we learn about the earth's fate, which is great, but doesn't really resolve itself at the end. So you're left kind of like, okay, now, now what?

[00:16:35] Yeah. I think, yeah, there's, it's almost like a little anticlimactic at the very end, but there's, there's a lot of exciting stuff that happens throughout. Like you said, it's a little bit more of a thriller. It's not just a, Hey, we've got to solve this problem on a blackboard. They really run into some life threatening problems that they have to solve while they're in, in space and trying to figure this out. So I think it'll be a great movie. How do you feel about Ryan Gosling as Ryland Grace?

[00:17:30] Predator of the astrophage, which is the microbe that's eating our son astrophage, which he points out it's Greek for star eater, which I thought was pretty good. You know, they have to go collect it. So that's a, you know, crazy scene that I'm sure is going to be fantastic in the movie. And then it leads to a bunch of different other dramatic scenes. So yeah, no, I think that that's going to, it's going to make for a great movie.

[00:17:52] Well, it'll be interesting to, to see how they portray Rocky. As you said, his speech is really like a series of sounds. And in my own way, I mean, my analogy to it was a little bit like R2D2 where he made like beeping sounds and things and other people could tell what he was doing or saying just from his kind of attitude and body language. If he hopped up and down and things like that.

[00:18:14] But the thing that Rocky has that's really interesting is like a very interesting speech pattern as he kind of learns English and is trying to speak back to Ryland in his language. It's not quite, to use another Star Wars analogy, it's not quite like Yoda, but there is a little bit of a goofy speech pattern, which is very endearing in the book. It'll be interesting to see how they portray it in the movie.

[00:18:38] Yeah. Like when, you know, he has claws, right? And they, they become very informal to each other. And he says, you know, once they succeed in one thing, he's going to fist my bump, right? You know, in the book, they seem to have this translator that Ryland has made. Rocky will sing and it'll blurt out to English. So I imagine in the, uh, the movie that that's how they're going to have him communicate probably. But, uh, yeah.

[00:19:00] Yeah. And then the claws are jazz hands. So they, every time they do something successful, the jazz hands each other, which is kind of funny. Yeah, no, I think it's, it's a exciting book as I, we had tried to do this a year ago and it's just, you know, scheduling, we couldn't get it. So I've read it again. And then, you know, every time you read it, you catch a few more things, especially when he's diving into kind of the science of the different components, like the astrophage and how it actually lives and, you know, how, how it actually, uh, eats, eats, eats,

[00:19:30] the heat and preserves the heat and, um, how they end up using it for fuel to actually drive Hail Mary is very interesting, especially, you know, again, to like a geeky science guy like me. Talking about irony. Uh, the irony is the astrophage is what is killing the sun, but without astrophage, they wouldn't, as a fuel for their new rocket, they wouldn't have been able to get to the place where they could solve the problem. So, I mean, there's kind of this interesting connection there.

[00:19:58] I thought overall it was great and I, and I enjoyed the characters, enjoyed the story. You, like I said, you're, you're kind of my science fiction guru where you're always giving me great suggestions on books. What do you look for in a good science fiction novel?

[00:20:13] And I, yeah, I love, love science fiction. That's basically all I read. There's two types, I think, of science fiction. One is the more kind of entertaining made, made to be a movie kind of science fiction where, you know, you can, you can read it and you kind of plow through it really quickly. I think this kind of falls in that category. You know, anywhere does a really good job technically. So, you know, you have that element of science to it. That's nice and nerdy. Then there's kind of the, the real heavy stuff, the Neil Stevenson long.

[00:20:43] It's going to take you a while to get through it. And there's periods where, you know, in the Stevenson books where he's going into the science that takes chapters and takes some fortitude to get through. But at the end of the day, like it's super rich.

[00:20:55] And, you know, then there's just kind of the classics. I'm still to this day, my favorite sci-fi series is the 2001 series by Arthur C. Clarke. So, you know, reading 2001 all the way through to 3001, which is the final installment of the series. And it's amazing how a lot of the stuff that Clarke wrote about when he wrote those novels have come true, which is interesting. So I think that. Oh, that's, you know, I've never read those. Yeah. Those are great. I'll have to put it on the list.

[00:21:25] Should be on everybody's list. All of them. You got to read all of them though. There's just four of them. Well, and we've talked about maybe another podcast in the future doing the three body problem, which is a trilogy out there. There's a fourth book that a different author wrote, but has been kind of endorsed by the original author. Great, great story. And I thought it, it followed some of the same aspects of Andy Weir's in that there's a big problem. It's, you know, futuristic.

[00:21:55] There's a lot of science and, and space and, and those kinds of things in it, but it was also a little bit of a psychological thriller as well. And so it, it was entertaining on a lot of levels. And what the three bottom body problem does, which some of these good science fiction series do is kind of hypothesize around like what could be out there, right? All these questions, you know, what is the universe? Why are we here kind of stuff?

[00:22:20] And I think the three body problem series does a great job of giving a theory, you know, this, this may be an answer. I think that's great. And it's like, it's very entertaining series and now a Netflix series.

[00:22:33] The one science fiction, actually, I think the first science fiction book you ever recommended to me was ready player one, which was a fantastic book and I really enjoyed it. And then I hated the movie. So I've been a little like down on the movie versions of science fiction. Uh, just because that one was, was, I thought so bad. I'll get made notes. It was Steven Spielberg who directed it. You know, you kind of expected a lot out of that one.

[00:22:59] Yeah, that was a great book. Uh, the other book that we'd keep taught, we talk about a lot of the Hugh Howery books, uh, the wool Silas series. The, those are, you know, very entertaining. You can really, you know, get through those pretty quickly because you just can't put them down. But those are, those are fantastic. Agreed. Well, Mark, thank you so much. It was a long time coming here. Thanks for doing this. Yeah. Thanks, Jamie. Now I got to finish the three drinks I have.

[00:23:24] All righty then. Well, thanks again for coming on the show and thank you for listening here. If you haven't subscribed, please subscribe on YouTube or on any of the podcast platforms and stay tuned for another one drink book club.