One Drink Book Club | Magpie Murders by Anthony Horowitz

[00:00:09] Hello there and welcome to another edition of the One Drink Book Club. I'm Jamey Bowers and my guest today is Susie Wagner and today we'll be talking about Magpie Murders.

[00:00:21] So Magpie Murders is kind of a classic who done it with a unique twist because the story follows a book editor who is actually editing a who done it and in the who done it you get to read it like she is reading it,

[00:00:36] and then as it turns out the last chapter is missing so neither of you get to have the satisfaction of getting to the ending and knowing what happens. And the fictional author, her fictional author that writes it commits suicide right when she discovers

[00:00:54] that the book is actually missing the last chapter. So it turns into a mystery of its own and whether or not the author was murdered or committed suicide really is two who done it's wrapped in one. So Susie, welcome to the show. Thank you.

[00:01:11] Well thanks Jamey for having me. I can't believe you just gave a spoiler away without a little spoiler alert. Pause now if you don't want part of the book rude for you. I mean we find this out relatively early but alright I'm triggered.

[00:01:25] I don't know that I gave too much away. I mean, maybe a little bit. Sure. We gotta be careful. More importantly this is the One Drink Book Club tell me about that.

[00:01:34] So the One Drink Book Club, the thought is picking books and guests that I like to chat with and trying to on each podcast picking a drink that is inspired by the book.

[00:01:48] And so that is one of my first questions for you Susie is what drink did you bring tonight? Ooh, what is this? This is called a magpie murder. I'm kidding. It's not.

[00:02:02] It's actually, it's a variation on an old fashioned that I had at the Kennedy Center about a couple weeks ago and they add like a soda to it like just a little splash of soda on top so it tasted very refreshing

[00:02:14] because I kind of think old fashioned is more wintry. Interesting. This is really tasty drink. You know it's funny the last episode the my guest had an old fashioned that had was a Wisconsin old fashioned that has a little bit of sparkling water in it.

[00:02:30] So it's but he also has an olive and some olive juice so it's a little more savory, which is kind of interesting. Yeah, well in fact that's what they were making at the Kennedy Center but this I was like you know what there's a little

[00:02:42] I put a little extra bitters in it so it says reddish hue reminds me of murder. And I just thought old fashioned because part of the book is when she died. The art book editor Susan, no relation, dives into reading the story.

[00:03:00] It kind of flashes back and post World War England and so I was like well what's better than an old fashioned for that time period. What are you having? That's a great choice.

[00:03:10] My drink tonight I was trying to go through in what see which drink kind of popped out in my mind and that there's a scene in it when

[00:03:20] Susan Ryland our main character who is the book editor goes to the funeral of her client, the author who writes the magpie murders but she goes to dinner with the author's estranged boyfriend who has lover who has inherited all of his wealth

[00:03:41] and I thought it was strange that this guy, this character James Taylor, decides to order a bottle of champagne for their dinner on the night of his boyfriend's funeral. So I am drinking a glass of champagne because that stuck in my mind.

[00:04:00] So I will, I will say this so when I first discovered Anthony Horowitz who is the real author of this book not Alan Conway.

[00:04:08] But when I discovered Anthony Horowitz he he was famous for a children's book series called Alex Rider and then I learned he had written quite a lot for television in the UK.

[00:04:19] I think I'm foils war and mid summer murders and magpie murders was the first book I read by Anthony Horowitz and I fell in love with it because it gave you extra.

[00:04:30] You know it reminded me of what I liked about reading when I was little with my grandma, I got the Christie's with her discuss them and, and I thought he added, you know that same sort of feeling and that same sort of genre but I like the book inside a book.

[00:04:43] I feel like it's like an Easter egg. It gives you a little, you know, special. And I had recently finished reading the Outlander series and the main character there is James Frazier or Jamie Frazier.

[00:04:53] So when I found out that there was a character named Jamie Frazier I'm like sold.

[00:04:58] So I read Outlander 2 because I am a fan of historical fiction and it's a long book. And, and then I like that the you know the main characters who was all hunky is named Jamie that like added value. But I got about halfway through it.

[00:05:14] I got halfway through it and I thought, wait a second. I think this is like a romance novel. Like it hadn't occurred to me until that point. And then I like looked up reviews and I was like, Oh yeah, it totally is.

[00:05:26] And then I'm like but I'm too invested to like stop right so then though I get to you know whatever page 900 or whatever it was like pretty close to the end and I thought they are not wrapping this up like this is going to go on for books and books.

[00:05:40] And I said I've done I can't out maybe book nine. Yeah, I couldn't commit for the long term with that. There's nothing wrong with Outlander. That's for another club, but I also enjoyed that book. Happy to talk about it. Whatever you want to.

[00:05:58] Do you like. Are you a big fan of who done it's like the Agatha Christie series and all of those. I mean I used to be and I guess that's what it was I mean I was sort of looking for something to read I read my pie murders.

[00:06:11] Like, last summer maybe the summary for it's not a it's not a brand new book. But I just, I accidentally downloaded on audible. And I think I was running around and doing stuff and I spent eight hours listening to it I couldn't stop.

[00:06:26] I was like, completely like, and then the author so I've read it, the book form and I've listened to it on audible.

[00:06:33] And there's something about the accent just kind of pulled me in and Atticus point who is the main character of the book inside the book that he's sort of a your herk girl pro kind of Agatha Christie hero and in fact I got Christie's grandson makes an appearance in this book.

[00:06:50] He does and you know clearly not a mistake or not a coincidence.

[00:06:54] I mean there's a lot of, again it's kind of the book within a book thing but there's a lot of references to Agatha Christie and the, the fake book inside there even lifts elements from Agatha Christie's that they figured out that that he was basically kind of plagiarizing in some

[00:07:11] degree or at least stealing ideas. Right. He had some of her books on reference on the bookshelf with this was and things like that. Yeah, so I think you know what's not always my go to it's definitely kind of a guilty pleasure, especially in the summer.

[00:07:27] I spent my summers with my grandparents and so on a hot night and like, ah, I better read better dive into a mystery this is what we do in the summer.

[00:07:35] I kind of enjoyed this one and reading it again to prep to be with you tonight. I liked it just as much and I think in some ways I liked it more because I was able to suss out some of those Easter eggs and pay attention to some of those details and it just made me

[00:07:48] appreciate Horowitz's thoughtfulness as an author. I agree now and I like who done it's but I find them to be different than thrillers. Yeah, I mean, and the reason is like with thrillers I really enjoy trying to figure out what really is going to happen.

[00:08:04] I feel like the who done it's they purposely try to make it so hard like they lead you down all these false paths. You're clearly supposed to think oh well that happened so he's the one who did it right.

[00:08:15] You know, they just told us this and he's the one who did it. And so I but I almost get discouraged like with Agatha Christie's I almost never know who did it at the end. And so in some ways I just kind of go along for the ride.

[00:08:26] Whereas with thrillers. It's just slightly different. I feel like there's more I have more of a chance of figuring out the ending. So did you figure out this one. No, not at all.

[00:08:37] I was totally off on this. But again, I kind of feel like there there is the intention to deceive. Yeah, definitely. And they and they there's again not to do too much of a giveaway or spoiler when they close when she realizes that she is missing a chapter.

[00:08:56] You're just about I mean it's kind of like there's half a line that says so and so is the one who did it. Yeah, and you think wait a second Mike that doesn't make sense at all. And so you have to wait until really the end of the book when when those chapters are found.

[00:09:11] So I think I think people are going to realize you're gonna find it eventually. I mean to be really cruel just to like leave it hanging out there.

[00:09:20] Well, so that's the thing too it's it's when you were reading it. Was there a part that you liked better like did you like this because it felt very real right it's like this real woman. She's a mill doing her job and then she's like wait I'm reading she's

[00:09:32] an editor which was actually that was my fantasy job you know like George Costanza it was architect and my fantasy job when I was in college, you know maybe seeking into bars under age I don't know if somebody asked what I did for a living because my ideas that I was 23 when I was not.

[00:09:49] I was a book editor. And so that was my fantasy job. But so reading this story about a book editor I was like, Oh, this is it. This is what it's like. I should do it and then suddenly you know she's in a very precarious position where she's investigating a murder and you know what's going to happen to her you know that's

[00:10:09] not a safe hobby. Right. No. So you want to be my latex salesman.

[00:10:16] Industries you you would work for Vandalay Industries that was the channel or no you could do pendant pendant publishing. Really if we're going to go with Seinfeld theme. Yeah, I think I used to have that t shirt Vandalay Industries

[00:10:28] maker of fine latex products I think it was the subhead of that. That was their tagline maybe.

[00:10:35] Yes, well I thought if I had to choose between the two stories because I've thought about that too which one did I like better and I kind of liked the book within the book better.

[00:10:46] You know because I did like Atticus Punked. I thought he was a good character. I liked the little you know English village that it all took place in. Darling right. Yeah. It did feel very real and the you know the vicar and all the various characters.

[00:11:04] Talk about giving things away. I think that's a nice people. Now you're blaming me for spoilers. I could entice people to want to read it. Now you've got a vicar in a village who likes to run around without his pants on. That's kind of exciting with his wife.

[00:11:14] With his wife just to be clear. Just to be clear. Yes. Yeah, so I thought that was fun. Again, I did not see where it was going like I really was surprised at the reveal as to what had happened.

[00:11:30] A lot happens in it. You know and I do like that there was you know comes to not spoiler it comes to a satisfying conclusion you feel like you know all of the loose ends have been tied up and that you know who done it times too.

[00:11:44] And so I think that that's one of the things I like about not only Magpie murders but as I found other Horowitz books you really as an author puts a lot of thought into the process.

[00:11:53] In fact, we were not chatting about this but I will raise up that his new series. They're the Hawthorne investigates books. That's not their title. They're all tied in like literary titles but Anthony Horowitz puts himself as a character.

[00:12:07] So he is. Oh interesting. Yeah, so he's tied with a detective who he also doesn't like which which is a really interesting technique for an author to write about somebody they don't care for you know.

[00:12:17] You know, speaking of detectives that was the one relationship in the book within a book that I thought didn't make sense was the detective Chubb because Chubb was kind of like oh Atticus you're here great metal with me you know you're probably going to solve it for me less work for me.

[00:12:32] But like he had no ego whatsoever and like completely didn't feel like it didn't seem like he was upset that Atticus was coming in to his turf and telling him what to do and who to investigate.

[00:12:47] Which I you know maybe I've watched too many cop shows but I thought that was an unrealistic human reaction.

[00:12:53] But I think that they mentioned that and I'm sorry because I started reading the sequel to this book so I'm not sure if it was in Magpie Murders or in Moonrise Murders the next one.

[00:13:04] But they explained that so Alan Conway the author of the the murdered author he he was kind of a bastard and he made terrible caricatures of real life people and kind of twisted their stories and so he was having fun with the real life detective that he met.

[00:13:22] He turned Chubb into such a character and somebody who was not believable it's like OK world famous detective do your thing.

[00:13:28] And maybe because it was post war England you know that it's just a simpler time you know they kind of had this like lovely manry way of telling the story but I really enjoyed it.

[00:13:38] I thought that the characters you know to your point were sort of believable and what was funny is I like the fake characters the ones I knew were characters inside the book even more than the real life counterparts but I thought he did a lot of nice job.

[00:13:49] Yeah. Now I have not see have you watched any of the Masterpiece Theater TV version of this book.

[00:13:55] No I did. I turned it on the other night and this was when Eric was out of town taking her daughter to her new apartment in Chicago and like who Magpie Murders and I was on the phone them and he's like oh I'd like to watch that.

[00:14:08] I'm like. Why did I say anything. I should be murdered. That was dumb. Like this is you know what I do character in your own thing where it's like do you watch it. Oh you do.

[00:14:20] So I have not have you tried it. I have not and that one I will definitely I will check it out because I think it would be fun but I get the feeling because I looked at it online and I was kind of looking at the characters and the IMDB.

[00:14:34] It feels like they they more heavily emphasize the Susan Rylan story of the book editor in those characters and then kind of the the book within the book is kind of like flashbacks almost. That's why I get the feeling of it. Yeah.

[00:14:52] Because when you read the actual book you get one chapter of Susan Rylan then you get the whole basically long time or other book. Yeah. And so it's a long time before she pops back up and I don't think I have a feeling they organize it a little differently.

[00:15:05] I actually kind of I don't have to sound dumb but I kind of forgot the beginning and halfway through I got so invested with Atticus point and this you know throwback murder mystery that I kind of then all of a sudden it ends.

[00:15:19] And then you know Susan comes back in with her voice saying yeah I'm frustrated too I don't know how it ends and I'm like ah and I'm like oh who are you what because it'd been it'd been like 18 chapters or something since we'd seen her.

[00:15:32] And I kind of just slipped into this different time and space which is also kind of funny that you can you know forget where you were with it. Well you know part of the thing when I was comparing the two stories since Atticus point in some ways I was comparing him to Alan Conway the fake author for some whatever reason those

[00:15:53] instead of comparing Atticus with Susan which is really what you should have been doing because she was trying to solve the murder and I was comparing Atticus with Alan and I liked Atticus a lot better than I liked Alan. Well I was because nobody liked Alan.

[00:16:11] Well that's funny too because they kind of kept saying you know not to speak ill of the dead but no one had anything nice to say about him and then you know to your point with his gay lover and I was wrong.

[00:16:23] James Frazier was Atticus Punt's assistant not not Alan's lover and what was his name again. James Taylor. Oh right the two James. But they were based on the same character like. Yeah true.

[00:16:36] Which was which was talk about a jerk move you're dating somebody and then you insert them into your book series as a character who is always wrong in his adult and like pretty pretty but pretty. You know that was nice. Yeah.

[00:16:53] Well but that was also kind of interesting and that was that to me was a great parallel storytelling where I think that Horowitz probably had a lot of fun sketching out these characters as real people and then twisting them into something that people would would maybe recognize but then also be insulted

[00:17:11] by and that was such a subtle way of saying this author is a jerk and so you don't feel remorse that he's been murdered and I'm not even sure anyone cared about solving it except Susan.

[00:17:23] Right and I think one of her main motivations was to find the chapters. To publish the book. You know we'll solve the murder but like I'm not that concerned. It's true. It's true.

[00:17:36] And I think she when she discovers who the murderer is she does kind of follow through on on trying to you know gain justice but it's only out of a sense of like true you know like that's the right thing to do you can't just let this person get away with somebody get away with it

[00:17:53] but I don't it wasn't like for any kind of trying to get revenge for the author it was you know she kind of thought well what else am I going to do. I have to turn you in.

[00:18:04] And that was that was really twisty I mean exactly right you know she finds out who done it and she's she's I think has a moment where she's thinking oh yeah.

[00:18:14] But then no I can't you know you've got to do the right thing and turn yourself in and again I kept thinking about the collateral damage this author left in his wake like he wasn't a good guy he wrote nine books and his very last act was just

[00:18:29] to make an anagram out of the main character's name that was so ugly it would be offensive to anyone who ever liked Atticus punt, which if you want scramble those letters it's I'm a stupid bad word I can't repeat.

[00:18:41] But I had a lot of fun thinking about that too. You know it's like he's so clever.

[00:18:46] You know, I think that is part of what makes me love it, not just that it was, you know, an enjoyable ride down multiple levels but also to think about how Horowitz are like,

[00:18:58] what he built into it, you know how he orchestrated it how he planned every single little thing to make sense at the end and as somebody who thinks, you know about creative process a lot. I'm in awe of authors who do these things, you know,

[00:19:12] Yeah, and to do it twice essentially to have to do it, you know, in the same book you're doing you're doing that whole exercise twice, which is even doubly more impressive. Yeah.

[00:19:23] So, so well what would you if you had to give it a rating out of five magpie murders your old fashions how many old fashions would you give this book magpie murders. Yeah. I give it 4.6 magpies 4.6 magpies I like the specificity of that. How about you go with 4.1.

[00:19:48] Oh, so maybe you're so enthusiastic. Yeah. But maybe not quite as enthusiastic just because I feel like there should be something over the top, you know. Yeah. I'm always looking for something more. That ending, that ending, Jamie, ending was a frickin roller coaster. It was, I agree.

[00:20:07] I agree. Okay, I would just say one thing though. So Alan Conway dies. He came out as gay late into his marriage. He had he was the father of a teenage boy who also is not portrayed well in this book as a no.

[00:20:20] And he does the same thing with him. Yeah, he has a character in his book based on his real child and it's not a flattering picture. And same name Frederick and Freddie and really not nice. Freddie we don't get to meet at all.

[00:20:34] He's sort of with his mom but do you think there would be some probate in there where they would sue for some of the money because she was with him right when he wrote all the books. I would think so. I would think so.

[00:20:44] To me is rang false. Otherwise I bought the whole thing. I could see it happening. I felt like, yeah, this could happen.

[00:20:52] So and I think that's why I got the point six in there because a it reminds me of a simpler time and happy, you know, summertime memories reading mystery novels. But but also could someone murder someone for a best selling novel? Yeah, I think they could.

[00:21:07] And if your publishing house is is struggling and your your primary author is going to go ballistic and implode. Yeah, there's some definite motivation. What did you think of Susan Ryland, the main character and her dedication to her work over her personal life?

[00:21:24] Ooh, that is a good question. Thank you. You know, I feel like she clearly made that choice. She was obviously in she was in a relationship. And at the end she kind of decided to opt for the relationship.

[00:21:39] Although at that point many of those decisions had already been made for her in terms of choosing like she no longer had a career. Yeah, I wasn't her choice anymore because yeah. I don't know. I feel like some people just choose that and that's fine.

[00:21:53] She didn't seem sad. What about you? I think one of the things I liked about the way he wrote it and again this is a 60 something year old guy writing about a woman in her 40s and getting in her head and using her voice.

[00:22:05] And so again, to me it's all the crafting right like I really like the way he did it. But he painted this character who's a very independent woman and she's working hard. She's hustling.

[00:22:15] I mean, there's this great scene where the one of the first time she meets this jerk of an author. She's come running across London in the pouring rain and her hair is plastered to her face and she's blouses wet and she's just a wreck.

[00:22:27] She knocks over his wine as she's sitting down. I mean, she is just doing her best, you know, and he sort of hates her like to the point that doesn't even manage the relationship.

[00:22:36] She's never been invited to his house that she effectively bought for him through her efforts.

[00:22:41] And there's this magical scene where she goes to visit her sister and her sister has this family and she works and she comes home and she's got the kids and she puts this gorgeous dinner on the table and Susan is like, like, has no idea how her sister gets done, nor does she want to.

[00:22:59] And so I thought that that was very generous and honest. And I felt like it was true for a lot of, you know, women both who are hustling to get it all done and then hustling just do their best and somewhere between.

[00:23:12] So I like the way he wrote her. I thought that she was believable. You know, that's an interesting question.

[00:23:17] You on the flip side are clearly you have a family and kids and you've been a professional and you're a hustler and you're out there working to see a character like Susan who does not have those trappings.

[00:23:34] Now, you can clearly she doesn't have the benefits of those things either. But do you feel a little bit of like almost jealousy in that? Oh, it would be interesting.

[00:23:43] No, it would be interesting to not have to worry about getting dinner on the table or taking kids to practice or whatever to focus on work. I mean, clearly any given day you could both want that and not want that.

[00:24:00] But was there any kind of guilty pleasure to see her lifestyle? No, because I always I always wanted to be more like her sister. I always wanted the life that I'm so lucky to have. I always wanted children.

[00:24:12] I always wanted a partner and blessed with that I have really nice versions of both.

[00:24:17] In fact, I always thought it was a bit curious for people that opted not to until I got older and then saw that, you know, they'd more money in the bank and less gray hairs. But I mean, you know, it's just different choices.

[00:24:29] And so I thought he did a nice job of writing her not to be desperate or lacking, but very clear in her choices. And I thought that it made her a more powerful character. And so even though she struggles, we all struggle.

[00:24:43] I liked the way she made clear choices and was unapologetic about it. Just like, yeah, I don't want to do that. Andrea, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[00:24:52] I don't want to move to Greece and be married to you until, you know, things come to a screaming halt at the end that she almost dies.

[00:25:00] Well, I liked in that very first chapter because I did go back and kind of reread that first chapter where she is getting ready to read the book and and sitting there and she mentions how she takes her clothes off and leaves them where they lie.

[00:25:14] She puts on a comfy clothes and lies on the bed that hasn't been made. And I think everybody. She's like fraternity boy. Right. It was and she has her like sports car, kind of like a midlife crisis sports car.

[00:25:28] But she's not, you know, she's unapologetic about but yeah, she's she's a good I like her as a character. But at the same time, I do kind of, I hope she chooses the hotel in Greece and the relationship, you know, like, I think those would be fun.

[00:25:43] I can tell you what happens. It all works out. She gets both. She gets both. It ends up being a happy ending, which is not commonplace for who done it's which is, you know, very true. Right. She doesn't die, which is good spoiler alert does not die.

[00:26:01] So let me ask you this having read Magpie murder and it's very important not to say the magpie murder because the book is magpie murders. Yes, would you goes into. Yes, I mean, that's a that's an element of the discovery. Right.

[00:26:18] Would you be interested in reading other books by this author? Absolutely. I absolutely would. Yeah. Yeah. It makes me happy. It's a fun. It's a fun read. It goes quickly. As you said, you start especially if you start listening to it, you don't want to stop.

[00:26:34] It's not work. I can't tell you how many times someone walked in the room and I had these, not this one, but I have these tiny earbuds. You can't see in my ears and my husband's talking to me and I'm like chopping salad making dinner.

[00:26:47] And I'm so he's like, ah, like yelling at me waving. You're like, I'm sorry. I'm in my burger. What's happening? What's going on? Yeah. What do you need? I'm in 1940s England. So what are you reading right now?

[00:27:00] What are your what are your summer books that you're reading? You're literally going to laugh at me. I get a little OCD on these things. I just cranked through the first four Anthony Horowitz.

[00:27:14] It's the detective author and investigates books, which he himself is a character and it's really enjoyable because he is Horowitz himself is on the set of mid summer murders and working with his wife who's a producer, which is all true.

[00:27:31] And so there's this funny blurring between fact and fiction and you don't really know. I mean, you know, it's a murder mystery and it's probably not true, but kind of don't really know because there's a lot of fact in it. So just crushed those.

[00:27:45] And in anticipation of our book club, I reread bank by murder murders. And then I decided to read its sequel. And so I'm about halfway through that and it's the exact same technique where it's another Alan Conway mystery, but it's a prequel in a way. So it's interesting.

[00:28:03] Okay. After this book, Susan does go to Greece and she is with Andreas and somebody seeks her out because their daughter is missing. And she had read an Alan Conway book and recognize something in it. But her daughter was one of the main characters in Atticus Punt book.

[00:28:19] So Susan is pulled back to England to reread this book to help the family investigate potentially a murder. And so it's another book within a book and it's very twisty and I'm really enjoying it.

[00:28:31] Oh, that's fun because I actually was curious how the sequel worked since Alan Conway is obviously dead. Yeah. And so the fake author in it was not able to produce more books. But if it's dealing with a prequel and a murder around it, that makes total sense.

[00:28:47] So you're rereading one of the Atticus Punt investigate books and it actually gives it's really very sweet because it's before James Frazier has joined this detective ring.

[00:28:58] And it explains a little bit more about Atticus Punt as a character and so that is also really very sweet and kind of enjoyable. And as soon as I'm done this book, I will be back to probably Sally Hepworth's new book called The Soulmate, which is fabulous.

[00:29:16] I actually read that before it was published. And then my good friend Sarah Peckinon who maybe you should invite her to be in your podcast. International bestselling author, Sarah Peckinon. She's amazing. She's a 12 time New York Times bestseller and she's a brand new book out called Gone Tonight.

[00:29:31] I've already read that and that is really, really fast turning. It's great. Oh fun. Have you done a lot of book promotion with your job? Or is it? I have.

[00:29:41] I have worked with a lot of authors and but I became friends with Sally Hepworth and Sarah Peckinon through a mutual friend. And they're like beyond. I mean, they're international bestselling authors one from Australia, one locally in Chubby Chase.

[00:29:55] And so they're just, I'm in awe of their talent, you know, and they write just page turning fast reads, which I find so compelling. Because I just have like a tired at the end of the day. So I need to make use of my attention.

[00:30:09] I don't ever imagine you tired. I have a really hard time. How did I describe you once? The Energizer Bunny of Public Relations. Yeah, they are advertising. Yeah, that's me.

[00:30:21] I have a little, we might not be able to see it behind me, but there is a, there is a drum and I have symbols attached to it. I just walked around the house banging it. So what are you reading? What new things crossed your desk?

[00:30:34] So there was a nonfiction I just finished called Salt, which was actually very interesting. It was all about the history of salt. I read it for a book club. I'm in with some college roommates. And there were, we were kind of split on whether we liked it.

[00:30:51] I really enjoyed it and it, because you don't realize how important salt was. Game changer. Through history just to preserve food and everything else. And so it was an interesting lens into to see kind of civilization and what people did and how important it was.

[00:31:10] And it motivated me to make some of my own sea salt. So I actually. So I was at the beach and I got like a five gallon bucket of ocean water. And then I boiled it in my turkey fryer until it boiled down probably 25% of what it was.

[00:31:31] And then in batches, I would put it in cookie sheets and let it dry out in the sun. Amazing. And it turns into crystals and stuff. And I made, you know, I probably, It's very fine though. When you make it like that, it's like almost like sand, right?

[00:31:44] It's like super fine. Well, it would kind of clump together in pretty big chunks. Oh, really? So it was actually bigger. It was smaller crystals than like kosher salt, but bigger chunks overall. I've tried it a few times on things. So it's Rehobo Beach. It was good.

[00:32:02] Now, you know, I probably spent five hours making two cups of salt. And probably $40 worth of propane and various other things. So I don't know, I don't recommend it as a premium product. It's a premium product though. Yes. For sure. So fifth grade science fair.

[00:32:26] I, my dad, because I had to come up with something. So my dad actually put pieces of plexiglass together over a cookie sheet that we made salt water out of. But now we made it from like Morton salt and water.

[00:32:39] And then it sat there in like the way he configured it. I think he got an A on this project for me. It was, you know, the cookie sheet was black. Yeah. And then it evaporated and then the water trickled down the side.

[00:32:52] And what was left in the pan was a very fine salt because it had been dehydrated, you know, salt that we've been reclaimed. So it never got crystalized again in the same way, but it was tasty. Yeah.

[00:33:05] I'm also reading right now for my, the next podcast is a prayer for Owen Meany. Oh, which I don't know if you've read. Oh my God, I love that book. John Irving, I can still hear his voice and I never listened to it.

[00:33:21] I just read it, but reading it. Oh, and meaning he came so real because he has a high pitched squeaky voice and I could just hear it. I am listening to it. And it's impressive. Like the voice is really good, like the Owen Meany voice is very good.

[00:33:37] Yeah, it's really good. That's throwback too. You're doing some like old school. It is throwback. I'm trying to do a mix, but I'm also asking people like I asked you and you were great. You came back with like four or five suggestions. Was that ridiculous?

[00:33:52] Well, you, you were very enthusiastic, which I appreciate it. Which is on brand for Susie Waggert. It's on, it's your brand and buzz. It's the brand and buzz. That's right. No, but I'm second to the end. For the listeners, brand and buzz is, is Susie's company name.

[00:34:08] So brand and buzzed up is we're always here to help. That's right. That's right. Good blog. Yeah. Thank you. Well, you open the door. Well, I was also trying, I was trying to describe, I was, I had written,

[00:34:24] I was like, how do I describe how I know Susie? Because we know each other. We probably met, gosh, 20 years ago. At least because I was, you were trying to get me to put an ad in time magazine. Was it time magazine? The only times national journal. Yeah.

[00:34:42] No, at the time, I thought first one for me was time magazine. Okay. And then I think you, and so then I bought a number of ads and then we figured out that our kids, our sons were in the same Boy Scout troop.

[00:34:54] So we became, oh my gosh, I forgot about that. Yeah. We were friends too. Well, thank you so much for joining me and thanks for your insights on the book and your suggestion of the book. So I'm looking forward to the, to the sequel. Same.

[00:35:09] I'm happy to come back and discuss that or a nonfiction, you know, twisty tale of woe or whatever you've got going on. So this is a lot of fun. Outlander, the 11th book or something. All right. The show is also good.

[00:35:22] So you just want to watch the show. I'm not on showtime. I think it is. You're good to go. Well, I'll have to check that out. Well, thank you. And if you liked the podcast, please subscribe and we'll be coming back with more of one drink book club.

[00:35:37] So thank you very much.